Kylo Ren VS Edelgard G3 Blog
"The revolution is not an apple that falls when it is ripe. You have to make it fall.”
- Pawan Kalyan
Kylo Ren, The Leader of the First Order from Star Wars
Edelgard von Hresvelg, The Empress of the Adrestian Empire from Fire emblem
“Out with the old, in with the new” a quote that has been said from the test of time, but what happens when that new is from a person attempting to overthrow their old masters? Well you get these two becoming the leaders of powerful organizations.
While they may have questionable acts there is no denying their might over the powers that encompass their entire world and on this battlefield which power will win in this fight? Let’s find out in this DEATH BATTLE!
Backgrounds
Kylo Ren
“Let the Past, Kill it if you have too. It's the only way you can become who you were meant to be.”
Background:
Name: Ben Solo
Age: 29
Height: 6’3
Alias: Kylo Ren
Likes: The First Order, Sith Stuff, and Rey (sometimes)
Son of Han and Leia
Big time daddy issues
Fortnite
After years of bloodshed the war between the empire and the rebel alliance was finally finished Luke brought his father back to the light. The emperor was killed, and the empire was all but gone
Nothing could go wrong, right?.... Right?
Enter Ben Solo the son of 2 of the of the most important members of the rebel alliance Han Solo and Leia Organa and nephew to Luke Skywalker, one of the greatest Jedi alive.
Due to his connection with the force he was taken in by Luke to join the new Jedi order after the old one fell, showing great promise everything seemed perfect nothing could go wrong right? Right? Well actually no. Ben had also come in contact with a powerful force user named Snoke who would slowly manipulate Ben into doubting his uncle and experiment with the dark side.Jn spite of everything Ben wasn't just interested in Luke's training but also his grandfather's (who he wouldn't learn he was related to until someone leaked it to the public making Ben feel betrayed by his parents and uncle), aka Anikan Skywalker aka Darth Vader one of the greatest sith Lords the galaxy ever saw. Kylo studied Vader and therefore… the darkside of the force seeing the potential of it. Unfortunately for him when Luke found out he was….. not to pleased drawing his lightsaber on Kylo while he was asleep
Also unfortunately Kylo woke up at that time and let's just say it wasn't pretty what happened next. Kylo confused on what to do and angry at his masters betrayal led to his power accidentally destroying the jedi temple. Kylo would run and join the Knights of Ren a gang that can use the dark side of the force. He would then kill the leader aptly named Ren and the remaining jedi students and be reborn as Kylo Ren.
Then joining up with his new master snoke and forming the first order with kylos might and a army at his hand they spread their domination though out the galaxy cause apparently the rebel alliance could only stop a deadly military force after it was formed, they went and tried to find the map to Skywalker to kill him, throughout his journey the first order made a new death star to destroy multiple planets at once (star killer base) it was here Kylo faced his father han after a heartfelt plea from his dad Kylo would kill han falling further into the dark side
after this Kylo would battle a new girl he never meant Rey who would beat him scaring him across the eye, however this only straightened kylos resolve, unfortunately he was beat to finding the map to Luke by, Rey, the 2 sharing an odd bond through the force. After this Rey would be captured by the 1st order, Standing in front of Kylo and snoke…However.. Something happened something no one expected.
Kylo killed snoke Saving Rey. Kylo then asked Rey to join him however she declined. Later he found who he was looking for, The man who led to his dark fall, Luke Skywalker, his uncle. The 2 fought however It wasn't Luke just a force projection used by him to trick Kylo, however it led to luke's death, Permanently ending the search for good. Now the leader of the first order Kylo continued to hunt the rebels, take out the galaxy and find Rey however after one of their duels something within Kylo changed. Kylo would look on to see… his father.
The 2 talked however it wasn't just a talk between a vision of han and Kylo but a fight between Ben solo and Kylo Ren in which Ben won. He would cast his old lightsaber aside and would help Rey battle the resurrected palpatine. After the fight of his life ben and Rey came out on top. However ben lost his own life dying in the arms of his once enemy. Though many will remember the dread and despair he brought there is no denying the end Ben did live up to his family's legacy. And much like the man he wanted to be like he did as well save the galaxy
Edelgard
Background:
Name: Edelgard von Hresvelg
Age: 24
Height: 5’3
Alias: Flame Emperor
Likes: Armored Bear Stuffy, Board Games, Carnations
Heiress to the Adrestian Empire
Step-Sister to Dimitri
Is a bisexual legend
Edelgard's Story
Heiress to the throne of the Adrestian Empire, Edelgard von Hresvelg was always tied to conflict and hardships whether she wanted it or not. Due to the influence and manipulations of her uncle, Lord Volkhard von Arundel, reduced the power and influence of her father. As a result, his objections could not save Edelgard or her siblings from the trauma and agonizing torture enacted by Those Who Slither In The Dark, aided by the corrupt individuals of the Adrestian Empire. Their horrendous experiments drove all of them mad, if not that then killed…except for Edelgard. She was given the Crest of Flames on top of her already existing minor Crest, though it turned her hair white and would dramatically shorten her lifespan…which is sadly not a unique case. All the while, Edelgard’s situation was used to manipulate her mother into helping to enact the Tragedy of Duscur, scarring the future heir to the Kingdom of Faerghus
Which Edelgard didn’t know about.
Obviously scarred for life, Edelgard saw Crests, Church of Serios, and the entire Caste system as tools for needless destruction and pain. Taking on the visage of the Flame Emperor, she hid her identity and made a desperate alliance with Those Who Slither In The Dark given their shared opposition to the church.
Though she despise their mentality towards the destruction
Using this guise, she would consistently attack the church and try to ruin their plans. Though she didn’t expect the interference of a mysterious mercenary, the child of the legendary Jeralt, Byleth. When Byleth chose to lead the Black Eagles, each student reaches their potential and bonds are made. Edelgard even invites her teacher to her coronation where she gains the power and influence to finally begin her true ambitions. After raiding the Holy Tomb, she reveals her identity as the Flame Emperor to her classmates, but is shocked to learn Byleth is willing to stand by her even against the fury of Rhea, who has much influence over the land as the archbishop of the Church of Seiros. Waging war on the Church and its ally in the Holy Kingdom, Edelgard seeks to end the system and rid the world of Crests. Desperate to end the conflict, Rhea transforms into her draconic form, the Immaculate One, which results in burying both her and Byleth, putting them in a coma for five years. Having taken the Monastery as their base of operations, Edelgard fights against the Church and Kingdom in that time, though racked with guilt over Byleth’s apparent death. Though much to her surprise, Byleth returns and continues to lead alongside her. They absorb the Leicester Alliance, defeat the bitter Dimitri, defend Fodlan from another Almyran invasion, kill the conspirator of the Tragedy of Duscur (which kinda resulted in the Those Who Slither In The Dark; since said conspirator was one of them; to flatten the city they fought in with Javelins of light but sssssssssshhhhhh), and slay Rhea in one final battle. The death of Rhea ends the curse of Crests, and Edelgard uses her total control over Fodlan to end the cruel system that had wronged her and so many others as she then sets her sights on ending Those Who Slither In The Dark (which she did). But this is only one scenario…
Route Differences:
Silver Snow
If Byleth sided with the Church instead of Edelgard on that fateful day in the Holy Tomb, they fight as enemies with her fellow classmates following the professor
Except for Hubert
Eventually the palace is captured and Byleth gives Edelgard an honorable death, where she laments being unable to fight side by side
Azure Moon (BEST HOUSE!! GO BLUE!!)
Byleth leads the Blue Lions alongside Dimitri
Dimitri and Edelgard’s history is shared, as they were childhood friends
Dimitri even gave her a dagger as a means to remember him by
Too bad she forgot
Dimitri would eventually discover the truth that him and Edelgard are step-siblings (sharing a mother) but Edelgard is never made aware of this
Dimitri, overcoming his trauma, manages to steal back the Kingdom of Faerghus from the corrupt Queen Cornelia (the aforementioned conspirator of the Tragedy of Duscur) and use his second chance to try and reason with Edelgard
However, Edelgard’s war path is set and they are unable to see eye to eye, thus they continue fighting until the last moment…where Dimitri offers her a hand of mercy that she swiftly refuses
With no other choice, Dimitri kills her and uses his power as the ruler of Fodlan to right its many wrongs for a brighter future as Edelgard would’ve wanted
Verdant Wind
Byleth leads the Golden Deer, and their forces defeat her; she dies…the end
Equipment
Kylo Ren
Crossguard Lightsaber
Kylo standard weapon is the crossguard lightsaber much like most it uses a red kyber which is made differently then most actually being produced through the bleeding of a kyber crystal (which Kylo actually cracked which is why it looks unstable) containing diatium in the grip as a additional power source.
It also has 2 small blades coming through the top sides which can be used as additional attacks if he is in a saber lock burning the hands of the opponent (or can be used as a impractical take down but it looks cool so it's ok) it's also based off ancient design that calls back to weapons seen millennia ago back during the great scourge of malachor.
Kylos skill with the weapon is quite great tho there are no outright statements of which form of lightsaber combat Kylo uses
For those of you who don't know there are 7 standard forms of lightsaber combat (See skills and Abilities for this)
Helmet
Worn by Kylo after his betrayal of the new Jedi order the mask is made of sarrassian iron a material found in asteroids that most sith used for weapons and armor.
Kylo would end up destroying the helmet however it would eventually be welded back together and built stronger than before
It has a built in vocabulator to make his voice all cool and epic
Outfit
Blaster
During his time in the Knights of Ren, Ben had a blaster
TIE Silencer
Kylo’s own personal vehicle to soar in the stars, it contains:
TIE Whisper
Kylo’s… other personal vehicle.
Edelgard
Edelgard can carry up to 6 of the following on hand
Weapons
Each can be reinforced for better stats except for Heroes’ Relics
Iron/Steel/Silver Sword
Basic blades, with steel having the best durability and silver having the best might and hit rate
Rapier
Deals bonus damage to armored units
Armorslayer
Deals bonus damage to armored units with less durability than the rapier
Devil Sword
An unholy blade that deals damage to the unit after every turn
Killing Edge
Sword with a high crit rate
Levin’s Sword
Charged with electric energy
Can fire bolts from a distance
Venin Edge
A sword that poisons foes
Brave Sword
Allows the user to attack twice when initiating combat
Mercurius
Sword with high crit rate and might
Sword of Seiros
Restores HP by 50% of damage dealt
Restores 11.85%/20%/30% of the user’s HP at the start of the user’s phase
Technically not obtainable by the player but Edelgard does use it in every non Crimson Flower route and is possessed by Rhea in CF
Iron/Steel/Silver Axe
Basic axes, with steel having the best durability and silver having the best might and hit rate
Mace
Bludgeoning tool that deals bonus damage to enemies
Hammer
Bonus damage to armored enemies
Hand Axe
Can be thrown at enemies
Devil Axe
Deals damage to user after combat
Killer Axe
High crit rate
Short Axe
Easy to throw
Venin Axe
Axe that poisons foes
Brave Axe
Allows the user to attack twice in combat
Tomahawk
Can be thrown at enemies for deep impact
Axe of Zoltan
Bonus damage to armored foes
Hauteclere
Axe with great might and crit rate
Heroes’ Relic
Amyr
Technically not a Heroes’ Relic but rather a Crest stone weapon designed specifically for Edelgard
Powerful axe that enables the use of Raging Storm if the wielder possesses the Crest of Seiros
If the user does not have a Crest, deals damage to them and could potentially turn them into a Demonic Beast
A Crest bearer can avoid this fate, though can only use it as a regular weapon if it isn’t the Crest of Seiros
My favorite move in Smash :)
Consumables
Vulnerary
Restores 10 HP to the user
3 uses
Concoction
Restores 20 HP to the user
3 uses
Elixr
Restores 99 HP to the user
Effectively a full heal as Edelgard can have up to 81 HP
3 uses
Antitoxin
Removes poison from the user
Pure Water
Increases the resistance of the user temporarily
Equipment
Leather/Iron/Steel/Silver Shield
Hexlock Shield
Resistance +4
Kadmos Shield
Nullifies armor weakness
Accuracy Ring
Hit rate +10
Critical Ring
Crit rate +5
Evasion Ring
Avoid +10
Speed Ring
Speed +2
March Ring
Movement +1
Goddess Ring
Luck +8
Restores HP each turn
Prayer Ring
Grants miracle ability
Chance to avoid otherwise fatal attack with 1 HP
Restores HP each turn
Magic Staff
Increases the might of magic spells by 3
Healing Staff
Increases Healing by 10
Unique Classes
Edelgard can obtain these unique classes
Armored Lord
HP
60%
Strength
60%
Magic
50%
Dexterity
45%
Speed
40%
Luck
30%
Defense
40%
Resistance
40%
Charm
70%
Carries a shield
Emperor
HP
70%
Strength
65%
Magic
55%
Dexterity
45%
Speed
40%
Luck
30%
Defense
40%
Resistance
40%
Charm
70%
Carries a shield
Crests
Grant special powers to those who possess them
Edelgard has the rare trait of having two Crests
Major Crest of Flames
The original Crest of the goddess
Occasionally restores HP equal to 30% of damage dealt
Minor Crest of Seiros
Occasionally increases might on combat arts
Abilities and Skills
Kylo Ren
Lightsaber Combat
Kylo Ren was a prodigy at a young age, having the most raw power Luke had ever seen and being his most prized student. He has been compared to his uncle and grandfather in skill.
Form 1 shii cho- the most simple form that
was teached to most younglings doing well against mutable opponents
Form 2 makashi- the fencers form that used quick cuts and jabs.
Form 3 soresu- defensive form that made a skilled user untouchable if done right
Form 4 ataru- strictly offensive form that used speed and agility along with some physical attacks
Form 5 d'jem so- mix of offense and defense using mostly strength based offense counter's
Form 6 niman- moderation that left skill in both offense and defense and focused on force based counters.
Form 7 juyo/vaapad- strictly offensive used both lightning fast and strong attacks and used alot of sporadic movements, used mostly by sith and some gray Jedi
Force
The force is the source of Kylos abilities, the mystical energy that gives a Jedi they're powers and since Kylo comes from the Skywalker bloodline he has near unmatched potential with the force compared to most others made deadlier via the use of the darkside.
It can let a user physically enhance themselves to be stronger, faster and tougher.
Telekinesis
Kylo can use the force to pick objects up, throw them, push them back, or pull them to him. This technique is a standard one to all force users and Kylo is no exception. Kylo’s range seems to be anything he can see and could use the force across light years.
Force stasis
One of Kylos more well known moves is force stasis the ability to freeze people and even energy blast in place he has used this power plenty of times to great effect,states he could use stasis on a torpedo can also it use it on other force users.
FORCE BARRIER
Is able to make a barrier to protect himself and others.
Telepathy
What might be Kylos most interesting force ability is his ability with force telepathy he can communicate over far distances with his force alone over long distances can even probe minds though against strong willed individuals this wasn't super easy.
SLEEP INDUCEMENT
No proper term for this exists but Kylo is able to put people to sleep on command.
Force Psychometry
Kylo Ren has the ability of Force Psychometry, an ability to learn the history of a person or object just by touching an object associated with them. Kylo is stated to have this ability
MIND PROBE
A variation of Mind Trick that Kylo was told about by Snoke and has mastered it by TFA, It let's him forcefully enter one's mind and learn information, Hux states that no matter one's resolve Kylo will eventually break them.
MIND TRICK/CONTROL
Kylo should have this ability as he studied under Luke who was proficient with it and was able to use the variation Mind Probe. A strong will can defend against it but with persistence can cause pain and eventually be broken mentally.
Ezra Bridger was able to make a stormtrooper kill his comrades and himself using the dark side variation of a mind trick.
Tutaminus
“The weapon went flying into the snow. Unarmed, he raised a hand and utilized the Force to fend off one slashing blow after another, until finally her fury penetrated his remaining defenses.”
-Star Wars: The Force Awakens novelization
Perhaps Kylos most impressive showing is tutaminus the ability to block force power/energy attacks with nothing but the force and your hand
Kylo did this with a lightsaber and Chewie's blaster bolt
FORCE LIGHTNING
Kylo Ren demonstrates the ability to use force lighting when he killed the original leader of the Knights of Ren.
Storm Creation
Kylo was able to cause a storm and destroy the Jedi temple with a huge lightning strike, he doesn't seem to be able to control it but he can summon it if he gets mad enough.
DYAD
A rare force phenomenon unseen in generations by the time of the Empire where two entities become one in the force. This causes the two halves to become immensely powerful. The rule of two the sith follow where only two sith can co-exist was to try and imitate this power but could not replicate the power a dyad holds.
Palpatine and Plagueis attempted to form one but failed, Palpatine also tried to form one with Anakin and failed. Ben Solo and Rey would be this prophesied dyad giving both immense power. The dyad would have limitless power if they were to fully unite.
Kylo and Rey were connected since the moment the other were born and the fact both are so uniquely powerful and the only thing to compare the others power too were each other the implication is that Kylo and Rey were already receiving a power boost from the other though it seems like they never reached the full potential of it. It does however mean they can reasonably scale to other powerful force users both ancient and modern since sith for hundreds of years tried to achieve this power.
Various other Force abilities
Edelgard
Default Stat Growth Rates
NOTE: These can change depending on class, but her base will be used to determine the potential in what she specializes in
HP: Total health
40%
Strength: Damage done with physical attacks
55%
Magic: Damage done with magic attacks
45%
Dexterity: Increases hit rates and critical hit chances
45%
Speed: Increases the chance to avoid hits and how much one strikes in a single attack
40%
Luck: Lowers the risk of critical hits
30%
Defense: Reduces damage from physical attacks
35%
Resistance: Reduces damage from magic attacks
35%
Charm: Increases the efficiency of battalions
60%
Overall
Edelgard is rather slow compared to the other house leaders, but has a good variety of skills and decent stat spread to cater to either physical or magic combat, though biased more towards physical as her unique classes focus on it (see Equipment for Classes)
Talents
These are the skills she is naturally gifted in and the ones she struggles with
Strong
Sword
Axe
Authority
One’s ability to command battalions
Armored Unit
Weak
Bow
Faith
Magic typically catered towards status (white magic)
Budding Talent
A hidden skill
Reason
Magic typically catered towards offense (black/dark magic: yes these are different)
Black Magic Crit +10
Increases the crit stat for black magic
Magic
Reason
Basic fire based black magic attack spell
Has no base crit chance btw
Stronger fire based black magic attack spell
Has no base crit chance btw
So worth that Black Magic Crit +10 investment
Luna Λ (Lysithea’s the best)
Inflicts direct damage equal to the user’s magic stat as it ignores resistance
Strongest dark magic spell in the game
Faith
Restores HP for an ally
Restores HP equal to 50% of damage dealt
Restores more HP for an ally
An attack that deals extra damage to monster foes
Skills
To keep this as brief as possible I’m only looking at abilities tailored to her strengths (see above) and the strongest possible variants of each
Also gotta find footage some other time…
Abilities
Sword Prowess Lv. 5
Increases hit rate, avoid, and critical avoid when wielding a sword
Sword Crit +10
Increases crit rate when using a sword
Swordfaire
Increases might when using a sword
Axe Prowess Lv. 5
Increases hit rate, avoid, and critical avoid when wielding a sword
Axe Crit +10
Increases crit rate when using an axe
Axefaire
Increases might when using an axe
Authority Prowess Lv. 5
Increases the might of battalions
Battalion Vantage
When the unit’s battalion’s HP is less then or equal to ⅓, the unit will always attack first
Model Leader
Doubles experience earns for battalions
Defensive Tactics
Battalions take half damage
Battalion Renewal
When the unit’s battalion’s HP is less then or equal to ⅓, the unit will heal 30% HP
Offensive Tactics
Increases might and hit rate for battalions
Weight -5
Reduces the weight of equipment
Armored Effect Null
Negates bonus damage to armored units
Charm
Added might to adjacent allies
Rally Charm
Grants charm to an ally
Pomp and Circumstance
Grants Luck/Charm +4
Axebreaker
Grants extra hit/avoidance rates when using a sword against an axe
Lancebreaker
Grants extra hit/avoidance rates when using an axe against a lance
Combat Arts
Wrath Strike
Basic sword attack
Grounder
Sword strike that deals extra damage to flying foes
Basic sword attack that makes it easy to dodge counterattacks
Deals magic based damage
Smash
Basic axe attack
Helm Splitter
Deals bonus damage to armored foes
Deals bonus damage to monster units
Deals magic based damage
Smite
Pushes adjacent ally 2 space away
Unique combat art exclusive to her Emperor class
Prevents the target from moving for one turn
Attack unique to Amyr (more on that later)
Bonus damage to dragon foes, allows her to move again
Feats
Kylo Ren
Overall
Managed to pull a fast one on snoke
Beat finn after being hurt
Matched Rey on multiple occasions
beat palpatine (with a lot of help)
Beat the knights of Ren
Beat snokes royal guard's (with help)
Killed a zillo beast, a creature that poses a massive threat to many Jedi
Strength
Comparable to Anakin, who's strikes have been compared to a meteor strike
Comparable to Yoda who could fight living mountains who's laugh shook asteroids in orbit (476 kilotons)
Far superior to Kanan and Ezra, who could throw meteors (3.95 - 7.91 megatons of TNT)
Kylo by ep 7 is stated to be able to beat ep 5 Luke and a younger Luke caused a Star Destroyer to Shudder (1.598 Gigatons of TNT)
Old Luke can cause an earthquake (476 Tons of TNT)
Comparable to other Jedis who in a group managed to slow down a ship that was stated to be able to "shatter a whole moon" (38 Petatons of TNT)
Another group could even stop the Debris, which threatened to bring the apocalypse to a planet
A group of Jedi long ago where able to rip apart a comet called Kinro,said comet was stated to be able to carve through planets. Kylo should be comparable to at least one of the jedi who contributed to destroying it. This requires a lot of assumptions go calc so we will just use this for consistency.
Might scale to Vader powering up his fortress with the force that made Mustafar "scream." Vader was in a force nexus while he did it so he might have been amped when he did it so emphasis on might scale (67 petatons - 2 exatons)
Speed
Caught a blaster bolt with the force after it was fired (Blaster Bolts are this fast)
Comparable to Rey who could react to force lightning
Should scale to obi wan who reacted to force lightning (Similar feats get this fast)
Likely comparable to Siths like Dooku, who can move faster than light
Other Jedi are able to react and catch debris moving at near light speed
Durability
Scales to Vader who survived a Planet breaking apart (111.7 Megatons of TNT, more on that later)
Survived a ship crashing from orbit with a barrier
Edelgard
Overall
Defeated Dimitri, Claude and Rhea in one timeline
In 3 Hopes she can take on and scale to characters who can solo armies
Managed to take over Garreg Mach
Successfully lead the Black Eagle house to win wars in numerous timelines
Strength
Can strike the earth with enough power to raise giant spikes
Comparable to Dimitri
Can break weapons by accident
The Immaculate One is capable of tanking a Javelin of Light. Javelins of Light were used to turn Ailel into a volcanic waste (13.3 gigatons of TNT) and destroy lands (40.9 teratons of TNT)
Comparable to post-timeskip Byleth, who fused with Sothis
Speed
Comparable to Dimitri, who can react to lightning (Mach 137 to Mach 544)
Is capable of dodging meteor (Mach 114 - Mach 13,497 or 0.015442 c)
Durability
Comparable to characters who survived meteor (548 tons of TNT)
Weaknesses
Kylo Ren
Power heavily depends on emotions, if his resolve is shaken or is emotionally overridden can be weakened to the point he can barely use the force
Can be blinded by his anger if unchecked which can lead to him being unable to recognize enemies tricks or strategies
Quite arrogant and can underestimate opponents leading to them getting the upper hand
Massive abandonment issues
Always wants MORE
Edelgard
She sees the end as justifying the means, willing to manipulate and throw anyone under the bus if it aids her cause
The finale of the Blue Lions route shows just how far she’s willing to push to achieve her goals, so not everything she does is in her best interests
All weapons have a durability limit that gradually decreases with use, combat arts in particular can eat them up
Can’t swim
Is deathly afraid of rats
Hegemon Husk
The form can be worn down which will revert Edelgard back to her normal self
Overall
Kylo Ren
“I've given everything to you…to the dark side.”
Advantages:
Comparable power/durability using Regular Ends
Faster
Better AOE
Comparable training and skill
Force can counter Edelgard's energy based abilities
Has a few more years of experience overall
Can potentially mind control Edelgard
Is in Lego star wars
Can hit the Griddy
Disadvantages:
Weaker/less durable using High Ends
Less Versatile by massive margin
Force can be weakened if he isn't in the right state of mind
The Star Wars Sequel ending
Is in Lego star wars
Edelgard
“Terrible power has its uses, and use it I will.”
Advantages:
Stronger/Tougher with high ends
Wider arsenal and abilities
Teleportation allows for better mobility/counters force stasis
Wider array of healing options through Nosferatu,skills,items and Hegemon
Luna Λ likely cannot be blocked by Tutaminus and ignores resistances
Cooler head and less prone to emotions
Comparable training and skill
Smarter and more strategic overall
Strong will and determination could help to some extent with mental attacks…
Best girl
Wins the thematic fight
Disadvantages:
Slower
Slightly weaker and less durable with regular ends
…But the force still negs her energy based arsenal
Not as high AOE
Force is hard to counter
Before the Verdict
Fire Emblem Heroes, is it canon?
Yes, it is canon…here is an entire doc explaning how Heroes is canon, with it the characters reach multi+ in ap however despite it being canon, for the purposes of this blog we will not use it for a few reasons:
This blog was made before Engage decided to make Heroes canon, if this blog was done afterwards then we might have used it because it was canonical to Fire Emblem
It would be a very simple Edelgard win where Kylo would have 0 way to win since Edelgard would take every stat possible
Why are we using feats from other Fire Emblem games?
We’re using feats from other games because they are performed using magic. Magic has been shown to be very similar across the entire series, with rather minor differences that amount to gameplay mechanics. It’s reasonable to assume that spells performed in the Fodlan games would be comparable to how they are in other games.
When did Sothis flood the world, and is it viable?
In the Shadow Library located in the Abyss, there is a passage called Romance of the World’s Perdition, which states that Sothis had once flooded the world. There are some that have stated that this is merely metaphorical, since it was written by the Agarthans who likely wanted to make Sothis look bad. However, there are multiple references to water and floods, giving the idea that the authors wanted to hammer in the fact that this event happened and was done by Sothis.
The statements are as follows:
“To sink the world to the depths of the ocean”
“Before the world sinks into a watery grave”
“A flood aptly named Despair will drown this world”
“Beyond the reach of the waters of Despair”
Was Sothis at full power when she fused with Byleth, and does Edelgard scale?
When Byleth was trapped in the realm of Zaharas, they fused with Sothis in order to escape from it. Sothis mentions that, thanks to Byleth, she had found her power again, and goes on to say that only the power of a god could escape from Zaharas. Before fusing, Sothis states that she will “relinquish all the power I have to you.” The basic gist here is that Sothis has regained her full Goddess powers and gives them to Byleth. Now, does Edelgard scale to post-fusion Byleth? Edelgard fights evenly with Byleth after the timeskip in Silver Snow, showing that they are meant to be comparable to each other. Both of them sharing the final blow against the Immaculate One helps reaffirm this. Edelgard is also comparable to Shez in Three Hopes, who could also fight evenly against post-fusion Byleth.
Lightspeed Fire emblem?
There are many spells in the series that are said to harness light. Because of this, people have claimed that these spells are light speed, however this is not the case. Most of, if not all of these spells do not showcase properties of being light speed. They either don’t move in a straight line, or possess force, and lack any other methods of determining light speed, such as being able to bounce off of reflective surfaces. While spells like Aureola and Hoarfrost do seem meant to be beams of light from the sun, the massive explosions caused afterwards means that they cannot be deemed light speed.
Star Wars Novels? Why use those
The novels that are being used are canon, simple as that. Only ones excluded are the ones from Legends since Kylo never appeared in them.
Planet Canon Vader?
So context for this, in a 2015 Star Wars comic, Vader survives a planet Breaking apart from a monster, the feat can be found here. Seems pretty big right? Well there's just one problem, Vader wasn't at the Epicenter or even close to it. He wouldn't take all of the energy, at best it would be this amount that he tanks.
Team Kylo Ren
STATS
This is a surprisingly close match with both combatants having good arguments for either side. Kylo is far more impressive than one might think being able to match Edelgard’s regular and more reasonable ends in AP. Should be noted that Kylo is upscaling his best AP feat while Edelgard is downscaling her best AP feat.
So to explain Edelgard’s high end of her feat Sothis floods the world and its left extremely ambiguous to how Sothis did it. The high end is going off on a assumption that Sothis created clouds and did the feat in a less efficient way. It's much safer to assume the low end that Sothis simply brought water to the planet with her magic then magically creating clouds to disperse the water when she simply could have moved the water herself. Even if you buy the high end Kylo has a potential win con even if you think he gets AP stomped
Speed is Kylo's biggest advantage not only does him blitzing by over 60 times mean he can get any hit on Edelgard first, it massively handicaps Edelgard’s arsenal and abilities because most of her haxes rely on actually hitting him. It's far more likely that Kylo can dodge any of her attacks and spam force attacks, mind hax or just cut her with his lightsaber. Edelgard is a statue compared to him and it would take a while before she could land a solid hit while Kylo would have all the time in the world to land his hits in.
Kylo's durability scales to his AP with the one caveat being that if he is surprised he won't be able to enhance his durability to take the hit, but with such a significant speed advantage Edelgard would not be able surprise him during the fight.
ABILITIES AND EQUIPMENT
While at first glance it may seem like Edelgard stomps in this regard, what Kylo lacks in quantity he more than makes up for in quality of abilities. Kylo's AOE with the force means he has the ranged advantage, Tutaminis let's him absorb almost all of Edelgard’s energy attacks. Kylo can also just dodge any of Edelgard’s attacks she could hit So Edelgard may have a far more vast arsenal Kylo has an answer to all of it with his speed, tutaminis and sheer versatility with the Force.
On the other hand Edelgard has no proper answer to the force, even ignoring the speed gap, she has no reliable way to dodge attacks thrown her way or resist getting her organs crushed by the force. Her main argument for that is simply being way stronger but that has some problems as we talked about earlier.
Kylo's mind hax is an interesting case because while Edelgard might have a strong resolve and mind, that might seem like enough to resist mind control but looking into the how mind hax work in SWl It's more complicated than that. First off Sith mind control is far more aggressive than your standard Jedi mind trick, A Jedi Mind trick is more passive while the dark side variation is far more controlling. Sith like Vader have used Mind control on beasts who specialise in mind manipulation. Kylo himself has used mind control on people who have equally strong wills as Edelgard, Poe Dameron is a born and raised resistance fighter who is extremely loyal to the cause, can under go torture and still not crack, yet Kylo was quickly able to enter his head. (A statement from Hux supports Kylo's mind hax working no matter the resolve), weaker force users like Ezra have used mind control to make enemies off themselves and there is nothing implying that Kylo can't just do the same.
Edelgard's strong heart and mind might help her defend against but with her track record against mental attacks and Kylo's impressive skill, it's more than likely that Kylo would eventually control Edelgard, and with the gap in speed in his favour he could definitely pull it off if he absolutely had too.
Tertiary Factors
Both combatants are incredibly skilled prodigies, being masters in combat it's hard to say who is better since both have great on the fly thinking in and out of battle. However Kylo will have a far easier understanding his opponent she will due to his mind reading and potentially Psychometry. His mind reading will let him understand Edelgard's weapons,armour and skull. While she has never a magic quite like the force.
One of the points against Kylo is him being unstable, potentially letting Edelgard outsmart him but we need to look at the context of anger. These episodes he is known for always have something related to his family or a personal issue, his biggest example of his rage blinding him is to Luke on crait is very much a special case as Kylo blamed him for everything wrong with his life at that point. There are several key factors that lead to him making the poor decisions he does in that battle (remember he had killed his father, lost a fight he shouldn't have, thinks his mother is dead, gets rejected by Rey, then Luke comes out and seemingly no sells an entire bombardment of blaster shots. All in the span of a week he is definitely not thinking 100% clearly.) Edelgard has no personal information on him, has no connection to him and no way to learn any of his baggage. A far better example would be Kylo fighting a Zilla beast, a battle even Vader couldn't win and was quickly able to think of a way to kill the creature. Simply put Kylo's rage is not likely to be a disadvantage against him with her having no way to actually make him pissed off in the first place.
CONCLUSION
With all this said both combatants have a lot of advantages over the over,but Kylo's speed advantage let's him dodge anything Edelgard throws at him, with the more reasonable ends Kylo could slash Edelgard 10× over before she could even react,mind reading let's him understand Edelgard’s powers while she has no way to understand his, and even it you have her AP stomping she has no solid defence against mind control. People coming into this people might have thought Kylo was nothing more than a wannabe Vader and has bad stats but just like people who thought the movies were bad they are wrong, his great power and abilities are more than enough to compare him to his ancestor. Edelgard is nothing less than a great leader and a fearsome warrior but in the end Kylo's speed, utility with the force and mental hax make it so he won't even have to bring in his army, cause he would win this SOLO.
Team Edelgard
STATS
Starting with the main part of the debate this was a lot closer then we all 1st thought especially given where most of us thought canon star wars lied in stats, starting with the big feats for both using the regular end for the flood and comparing it to Kylo both land around the same level (multi cont) which puts both around the same tier however there is more to it as while the regular ends are around the same there is the higher ends for edelgards feat which would put her at exaton level, this putting her higher than Kylo, this also lines up with there other feats with Kylo reaching a little over 1 gigaton while edelgard hits 6/13 gigatons (ntm the 40 teraton level feat) regardless of what's used this could imply at least her being slightly higher than Kylo in raw power.
To go back to the high end for a second it’s left openly ambiguous in the text the exact method for the flood however there's actually nowhere near enough water in our planet to cause a planetary flood. In fact, even if all of the Earth's water was converted into rainwater and fell down to the surface, the sea level would only rise by about 80 m,which would only cover a tenth of the Earth's surface,with nothing backing up Sothis moving that amount across the entire planet overtime it makes more sense logically to use the second method (cloud method) in this scenario.If all the water currently present in the Earth's atmosphere fell as rain, it would only be enough to cover the earth from a depth of 25mm. The current oceans are only enough to raise the sea level by 70-80m.
Overall while the low end for the flood is ever so slightly lower than Kylos scaling we believe given how much higher the high end is for the feat it's fair to say edelgard holds at least a slight edge in power Tho admittedly this edge isn't game changing on its own it does open up a lot of her other advantages
Speed wise this is where things get REALLY rocky, comparing Kylo to other Jedi (even in canon) should put him around the LS range of speed tho even without it he should reach around lightning timing via comparing to other Jedi and sith who normally block and shoot lightning so that puts Kylo anywhere from mach 724 to the speed of light.
Now for Edelgard ignoring the light stuff (which we'll get to), Edelgard can be compared to both the meteor dodging (around Mach 114-13,497) or Dimitri’s own lighting timing speed which hits anywhere from mach 137 to 544, this puts her around the same tier (roughly) around Kylo without the light stuff
As for Edelgard scaling to light based attacks such as Auerora and Hoarfrost while some may say that it's not lightspeed due to it causing explosions (Least Auerora does since Hoarfrost does not actually cause explosions just shattering the ground and causing rocks and pavements to be launched everywhere) afterwards this would mean that Fire emblem isn’t FTL or Lightspeed but considering it does use sunlight you could potentially give it the benefit of the doubt and make it ftl (and by extension Edelgard) not to mention magic does not run on real world rules so it exploding doesn't automatically ruin the chances of it being actual light in which Edelgard would mostly match Kylo in speed and with her already existing ap edge Kylo really cannot stack up to Edelgard in terms of stat wise
However if you do not wish to use Faster Than Light for Fire Emblem and say that Kylo would be faster than her, Edelgard could mitigate that gap to an extent with her amps like Skill increase or Hegemon, while this would still mean that Kylo is faster the gap would be lower and since Edelgard could also dodge some (but not all) of Kylos attacks as the possibility of dodging is not fully a 100% chance of happening but it would mean that Edelgard can play the long game and stall out kylo long enough to get a clean kill in but stats aren’t always the main focus point so without further ado this shall lead to…
ABILITIES AND EQUIPMENT
Kylo Ren and Edelgard both come equipped with the best gears and abilities in their respective world but simply looking at variety Edelgard simply has much more to give on both sides, her vast array of alternative weapons pretty much minigate completely the durability limit problem and her other abilities are more numerous than Kylo ever had to deal with in a one on one fight
Force Stasis is hardly a problem, assuming you have her stronger she could likely just break out of it and even if you buy her at comparable in strength to him and say she can’t power through it, a teleportation would simply get her out of that problem entirely as well as giving her a complete mobility advantage that she would have no reason to not use as much as she needs to,to reposition herself,put distance and simply draw the fight out as much as possible.
Ik some might ask about the organ crushing, while it certainly could work if given the chance it's not normally in Kylo's strategy even in moments when it would be useful to use (like against snokes honor guards) who like edelgard don't have any real resistances to it, yet Kylo fought them with his lightsaber which is likely what he would choose to do here and it's not that he doesn't use these abilities enough it's that he hardly uses them at all against non force users and while we are not saying he couldn't use it a few times to win it's hard to imagine he'd use them more times then he'd just run at her with a lightsaber plus considering it isn't instantaneous there's the chance edelgard could just teleport away from it to avoid it and hegemons natural Regen and multiple life bars are a good answer for the organ crushing as well.
Really this is one of his downfall to us if Kylo focused more on the force he'd probably stand more of chance against her maybe even being able to wear her out even over time but instead his fighting style is much like that of fellow sith, darth maul who also didn't really use the force even in fights where it would benefit him,
Simply put Kylo is likely to fight this like most if not all his fights, with a lightsaber
Which puts him at a disadvantage against edelgards superior power and at least matching speed.
On that aspect it is no secret that with her crests, healing spells/life draining, items, Healing skills or defensive skills to cut damage in half and increase her defenses Edelgard is far more suited to keep up in the long run and instead switch her stance to be more defensive against her faster and more agressive opponent. Her greater longevity would certainly make it very difficult to wear her down (While Kylo does not have similar options in case he gets hit) even with regular ends and would make it even more so using higher ends for the Sothis’s flood feat possibly negating any progress he would have made towards chipping down the Empress not even mentioning that she could also transform into her Hegemon form if she is close to death,with it’s regeneration and recovery after each time she is taken out restarting the entire process of all over again 2 or even 3 times buying her even more time to work her way towards victory.
Now that’s not to say that Kylo’s arsenal is lacking in any way, after all a Lightsaber is an incredibly powerful weapon and the Force in and out of itself is an absolute hassle to deal with overall. Kylo’s Tutaminis negates the vast majority or her ranged weapons and offensive magic,in the same way apart from Telekinesis and Force Lightning (The former being able to be escaped simply via teleporting out of his grasp and the latter falling within ranges of speed Edelgard already occupies) coupled with Kylo’s tendency to favor direct confrontation means the fight will fittingly be majorly in close range making it unlikely for Kylo to just try to rely on his Force long ranged options all that much especially if he sees they don’t work all that well.
A rather important Spell however could work and that’s Luna given how it functions not as a projectile but rather as a pull in abilities that draws the target in it’s unlikely that Kylo could just use Tutaminus against it not to mention the unique properties the spell has,dealing “direct damage” and ignoring “resistances” which sounds ominously like durability negation,now whether or not it would hit is questionable but it certainly is something to consider especially since it’s a magic she would have no reason to not use a lot during the fight.
Now a big point to talk about is can Edelgard resist or at least fight off Kylo’s mind attacks and other abilities of the sort and the answer is… not really but also kinda yes? To be more clear right of the bat Edelgard does not have resistance to mind manipulation on her own which would clearly mean that she would be susceptible to it however it is also an important point to bring up Edelgard herself and her mental fortitude,Edelgard as a character is defined by her focus and iron unwavering will since her childhood (which had a healthy dose of torture to preprare herself for what was about to come later on) up until the end of the story Edelgard has always looked on straight ahead with a determination so fierce that she put her entire life behind what she believed in,every action,every choice,every sacrifice was all for that one goal and she always choosed to forge on ahead no matter the cost or sacrifice. Kylo has struggled or at least certainly had to put some time and focus in order to affect mentally characters with certainly weaker resolve and determination than her like Poe has shown that it’s possible to resist it for a time not to mention he was tied up as well and couldn’t do anything,not to mention an incredible resolve/iron will and determination in Star Wars makes it much more difficult to use especially in the middle of a fight let’s not forget it’s hardly a pick he has really employed in a direct 1 on one before,even then he cannot exactly try to mind hax her and also attack her physically at the same time given the entire focus the ability needs and with her mental fortitude it’s likely that something as simple as casting an offensive spell would force him to block or dodge breaking his attempt. Regardless while it’s certainly possible that he could succeed in doing so it would certainly take more than just a few seconds leaving options for Edelgard to interrupt him or teleport out of his mental grasp
Tertiary Factors
Both fighters are as skilled and trained as they come with both having started from similar ages to become the very best warriors both on the battlefield and in the mind falling within similar ranges in sheer skill and training.Looking at total experience Kylo does take a minor edge due to being a few years older and thus having been active for longer however this is indeed a very minor point as Edelgard’s resume coupled with her 5 years non stop war against the Church of Seiros certainly means she has the might to go against him.
Looking a bit deeper a gap starts to show in their personalities Kylo may be incredibly skilled and vicious but this has also revealed one of his biggest weaknesses as an individual being FAR more arrogant and prone to his emotions taking over which has lead to him losing against opponents he realistically should have outclassed.
Comparing that to Edelgard and her approach in battle is by far much more careful and adaptable to whatever she faces,always keeping a cooler head no matter the situation or obstacles,analysing and breaking down her opponent’s weaknesses for the best outcomes and her vast magical arsenal combined with multiple special skills gives her a lot more options throughout the fight to capitalize on it.
This is perhaps the greatest difference between Kylo Ren and Edelgard, while she learned from her mistakes and grew, willing to change to further her goals and ideals strengthening herself physically and mentally, Kylo Ren is undoubtedly incredibly skilled, but lacks the same growth from most of his life and has faltered and made much more costly mistakes both in and out of the battlefield something that would prove fatal in this bout.
Conclusion
However this fight certainly proved to be far closer and far more debatable than most would have initially thought with kylo only getting movie scaling and like the movie it’s kinda bad, but he ended up getting even more feats than we expected, despite this Edelgards slight ap advantage and her list of equipment and powers are something’s that kylo cannot stack up too and while this fight is very debatable (or not if you just use FEH in which case EdelgardSweep is indeed real) as Kylos force powers will definitely not be easy to get past at first and his greater speed edge will also make Edelgard play catch up against Kylo at first however when Edelgard uses her amps and it closes the speed gap that is when Edelgard should win
While stats are indeed close the sheer versatility and magic powers Edelgard has will eventually overwhelm Kylo since Kylo doesn’t really have any workarounds to Nosferatu (which works somewhat similar to a life steal) among other healing spells means Edelgard will be capable of surviving for far longer there is also critical hits that edelgard could land very randomly to deal even more damage to Kylo and since she has weapons to increase her crit rate they will be extremely helpful towards for edelgard
In the end Kylo will put up a hell of fight and edelgard won't be walking away without any damage but In the end we see her taking this win
By FORCE if necessary.
The Votes
Team Kylo Ren (6)- Drhippotime, Spirit of the Afternoonstar, DeepHurting, Joe, Abaas (aka why am I here), NonoC.
Team Edelgard (5)- Unlimited, Gillian, TrexGamer, Idk, Noelaigis.
The Winner is…
Kylo Ren
(Edel would win with heroes though)
For the next time i'm going for The Missing Link.
ReplyDeleteDid yall ever get to the next time?
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